# IETF123 ANIMA WG Meeting Agenda and Notes Master at: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-123-anima IETF123 is a hybrid IETF meeting. Please familiarize yourself with the new&changed procedures for participating in-person or remote: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/preparation/ ANIMA will have one ~2 hour session, chaired by Sheng Jiang and Toerless Eckert, Monday, Session III, "El Escorial", 14:40 - 16:30 Meeting Time UTC 13:40 - 15:30! NOTE: "El Escorial" is the large "Side Meeting Room". It is on the ground floor. Immediately before, there is a lunch meeting in the room (3GPP). Therefore the room will have to drain before we can start. Therefore, we will start around at 14:40 *NOTE: Michael Richardson will again be doing BRSKI hacking at the Hackathon, so feel welcome to join to discuss or help (saturday / sunday).* Number of participants on meetecho: 24 In the room: 16 (3:45 PM) collaborative editing by WG members. # Agenda / Notes ## 00 Chair slides Presenter: Sheng Jiang (remote), Toerless Eckert (local) Time: 10 minutes RFC Editor Cluster C528 draft-ietf-anima-jws-voucher-16 - in RFC editor queue (misref) Depending on draft-ietf-anima-rfc8366bis Updates on WG documents without own slots ### draft-ietf-anima-brski-prm-23 (was -18 at IETF122) Update slides from authors later attached to chair slides WIll keep it in AD queue until rfc8366 is released ### draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-16 (was -14 at IETF122) Ongoing early review / document update since 122. Think document is ready for AD to give it go-ahead. Forwarded by Mahesh to IESG. ### draft-ietf-anima-grasp-distribution-12 Before IETF122, authors planned to work on PoC implementation. Currently no updates, but use-cased based PoC work still ongoing. Propose to park document for three IETF. Will Park it. ### Operational Considerations Newly adopted WG draft since IETF122: draft-ietf-anima-registrar-considerations-00 draft-ietf-anima-masa-considerations-00 ### Constrained GRASP draft-ietf-anima-constrained-grasp-00 Note: Also requested (toerless) slot for draft in CORE-WG meeting to get feedback from WG related to options of leveraging/requiring CoAP for this (and potentially extending it) ## WG draft slots ### 01 Constrained BRSKI Draft: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-voucher-28 (was -27 at IETF122) Draft: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-join-proxy-17 (was -16 at IETF122) Presenter: Esko Dijk (ED) Time: 15 min Mcr: Document still is marked WGLC, and maybe should be closed, and a second WGLC should be started. Reviews were done a few versions back, so maybe they would re-read. coap+jpy scheme - thought we where pushed to that by some other reviewer. Now we're being pushed back into another direction. so we will change coaps+jpy:// => jpy:// ED: once you have a relay, you might wind up using it for other things i.e. transport other/newer protocols in a backwards-compatible way. (Generic = good) The "jpy" more generic scheme fits with that. Next steps: check with the document shepherds (have one more look and propose next steps). Then check with all prior IETF out-of-WG/area reviewers, explaining the updates and check if ok to proceed now. ### 02 BRSKI discovery Draft: draft-ietf-anima-brski-discovery-07 Presenter: Toerless Eckert Time: 10 min Esko: I'd like to do a DNS-SD review / check. (After IETF 123) Michael: have a Rust implementation available. ### 03 RFC8366bis Draft: draft-ietf-anima-rfc8366bis-13 (was -12 at IETF121) Presenter: Michael Richardson Time: 5 Min Still looking for new Shepherd, else Sheng will become Shepherd. Note: SID are manually added into the document because the YANG tools available do not do this right today. Esko: is this a problem that should be solved before progressing with the draft, or not? Michael: we do it manually - should be no problem for now. Only if someone later extends the YANG model, which we may never have to do because we have defined now an extension mechanism that can be used instead. ### 04 Constrained GRASP Draft: draft-ietf-anima-constrained-grasp-01 Presenter: Longwei Zhu (remote) Time: 10 Min Toerless reminding presentation to CORE-WG tomorrow. Esko/Toerless discussing re-use of CoAP with/without using CoAP features as an ongong issue and unnecessarily adding overhead by replicating features that could have been done at CoAP layer on the app-layer. ### 05 BRSKI considerations Draft: draft-ietf-anima-registrar-considerations-00 Draft: draft-ietf-anima-masa-considerations-00 Presenter: Michael Richardson Time: 10 min See also: draft-irtf-t2trg-taxonomy-manufacturer-anchors Esko: option 1 looks ok ("BRSKI"). Can include ACP, non-ACP, constrained, large/small etc as separate sections/considerations if applicable. Toerless: Was suggesting that these could be called just "**Considerations**", not just "Operational Considerations" because that for example could then also allow to include implementing considerations. ## New Work proposals ### 06 ACP free "Automation Network Infrastructure" Draft: draft-eckert-anima-acp-free-ani-00 Presenter: Toerless Eckert (local) Time: 10 min Did run out of time to present this @IETF122 * would like reviews to allow for adoption at IETF124. * addresses NAT44, NAT64, GRASP-mediated proxy of ANI/ASA SJ: glad to see this work! But would like more potential customers to see this! TE: want ASA implementers to see this, and this is a smaller subset to rely upon SJ: any specific customer/targets for this work? Will there be a prototype? TE: ### 07 Summary of ANIMA 2025 INTERIM 1 Presenter: Toerless Eckert (local) Time: 10 min Slides: See https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2025-anima-01-anima SJ: did not manage to get much followup from virtual-interim meeting where we had a bunch of new work presented. Proponents are new to IETF, so may not know what to do next, but Sheng is trying to help them with next steps. Discussion abcout how to allow academic students to best contribute to ANIMA (or other IETF) work. Toerless suggesting that work on prototype implementations of current/future ANIMA technology aspects allows most easily to create a researsch contribution from it - by describing protblem, solution through prototype code and results from exercising/measuring the implemented work. This at least has been the standard approach by researchers seen in other networking research conferences, including but not limited to P4 forwarding plane research work. Sheng proposing to have more followup meetings wirh those research proponents. Bing: pretty exited to see use-cases from operators in interim. Bing: maybe current ANIMA reference model is too complex for the new contributors? Lots of ongoing work in NMRG - using AI/agents for ops. Reference model could be updated for this new work. ## Chair Wrap-off ## Todo Toerless: - put grasp-distribution into parked state unless update from authors. - Still looking for new Shepherd, else Sheng will become Shepherd. Sheng: (ONGOING 07/2025) Initiate IANA early review for BRSKI discovery upon re-request from authors (next rev after IETF122) Discuss signed GRASP for discovery etc..